Gateway Church. The Equipping Podcast 10M ago Sharpen your thinking on issues that matter. I have no doubt there are many many more victims. Again from the Watermark Church document: 1.Voluntary termination of Membership is available to any Member in good standing upon written request of that Member. Get eSignature workflows, document management, and business process automation with the airSlate Business Cloud. In this murky situation, however, the two men dont need honorary titles. Are Calvinism and YEC accurately described as higher? seems pretty far-fetched to me, but sure makes for a great explanation and a great story (if youre not Todd or the supposed wealthy person, this is what you were told). Not to mention that even if the words are perfect its up to the listeners as to how they interpret it. But, you provide NO evidence, NO situations If the things she claims were stated from the pulpit are true, there should be plenty of documentation. There are people who are genuinely afraid to withdraw their membership for fear of being put under church discipline, pressure from the community group to conform, and outright harassment. How many times have you actually talked to Todd? Its upto Him. Both of these practices are, in my opinion, unhealthy. Im sorry Todd but Im praying for you and your family through this rough times. During his address to the Watermark Community Church congregation in September, Wagner told them [], Did anyone see this Sundays Sermon? Spiritual authority has nothing to do with title, education, or rhetorical ability (2 Cor 10-13). Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. This drum beat often is driven by pride, immature leaders thats been placed to seven themselves. In the video, an emotional Leventhal said that he had resigned on March 26 because of a loss of trust in Todds ability to lead in the role of pastoral elder/senior pastor, which was the direction the elders were wanting to move to.. Just checking out the church and looking at the background info the house has tripled in value since the Wagners bought it 20 years ago hardly a 7 figure home when purchased. Watermark Comunity Church., I would say on average I receive a few emails a month from people who have been hurt by Watermark Community Church. So you either choose to remain by completing the 4b questionnaire or you are no longer a member, [] a greatexample of unsafe community groups which verge on cults. Im also a bit a sad with respond of David (elder) who is in the leadership role to show the love with staring at the congregation (may be because of challenges). What does all white and all males have to do absolutely anything with regard to this situation? Who aint very happy. I have NEVER been asked to, let alone forced, to disclose financial information. If I was a member of this church my motivation for remaining or leaving would be almost entirely based upon trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. Its extremely worrisome that they feel they have to hide and be afraid of what Watermark Church may say or do in response to them telling the truth about their abuse. I cannot imagine that Jesus, given all options, would choose to live among the wealthiest citizens in the most landscaped, luxurious part of the city. Would you consider making a tax-deductible donation to help our journalists continue to report the truth and restore the church? Wagner was tearful during his speech in the video Sunday. There are also a lot of factors that go into measuring ones wealth, not just the dollar value of ones house; and there are a lot of things that go into measuring ones character, other than how much money one has or the kind of house one lives in. If youre short on time, start at 27 minutes when the speakers starts explaining why people think Watermark is a cult. You are experienced and know your Bible and subject. Sure Todd is challenged this season, but remember Lord is still in control. Why all the allusion? I dont know if I am over-reacting when Todd made a off the cuff remark about taking his wife some where last week where she could be warm. I went back several times others preached but werent as good holding an audiences attention as Todd Wagner and the full content with historical and life referces and quoting scripture just wasnt there like Todd Wagner.. then they said Watermark Plano was becoming its own church. Todd could use he had no use for you. It is the Lord Jesus who is in control after all folks. Wagner blatantly blasphemed Holy Scripture, hence your whitewash of content and material issues. When this article was written, . Awaken Conference 2021. Watermark is very good at many things but also very bad at a few. Grace Community Church will be paid $800,000 by Los Angeles County and the state of California after reaching a legal settlement to a lawsuit over COVID-19 restrictions in churches. One person complained that her husband was forced to tell his community group how much he made and to account for how he spent his money. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of "Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse" by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. The building was used for free to us (but not them). . Great! A church membership contract errr. Wagner founded Watermark in 1999 with the expressed purpose of ministering to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." The church grew rapidly and now has campuses in Dallas, Frisco, and Plano. Even through this challenges we can be so judgements these day. Pastors often receive the most judgement and its rarely considered that they likely face the most spiritual warfare. And why? How can you be under church discipline if you leave the church? Its a really bad idea in my opinion because its not being totally forthright with members about what the church actually teaches. MacArthur's Grace Community Church of Sun Valley had been involved in months of legal battles with state and local officials . Listening for root issues and how they cause hurt for make more senses than listening to reply in a sermon. Not Todds decision but good try on the poor stewardship bit. Im not saying that the Watermark Todd Wagner lives in a shack, by any means. I didnt feel the spirit when I heard him. You can tailor it to your groups needs John Doe's attorney says his client is now considering a civil lawsuit against the church for slander.7 This is maybe a time for correction for Todd as it seems (2 Tim 3:16-17) havent you ever done anything wrong? the equity in a $million+ home can be invested to provide hot meals, warm beds, jobs, training, and more for years. I have never met so many people using the term spiritual abuse asRead more , Concern, Who are you to judge!? He said at the time that he was not guilty of disqualifying sin like sexual immorality, financial misconduct, or foul languagesomething Wagner reiterated when he announced his resignation. In layman's terms, that means all decisions concerning the governance of the church are made by the elders, not by the members. Church leaders concealed sexual abuse of young children, lawsuits allege. What do you mean exactly by re-victimization. Forgot account? Just the congregationhmmmmmm.. its raw observation on your part you arent being led at all. Thanks for the reply. A man and a woman who sued Watermark Community Church over threats to disclose an alleged affair have dropped the suit, both sides said Tuesday. If your Parents were not rich and someone. if servant leadership plus Jesus Christ means anything, it logically using financial means to serve others. Our church has an elder-type rule that is healthy, but I know of churches that have had an elder-type rule that is not so healthy. On 05/28/2008 THE STATE OF TEXAS filed a Property - Eminent Domain lawsuit against WATERMARK COMMUNITY CHURCH. I agree, it is all relative, which was kind of my point. WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. Thats for God to reveal or conceal.. It is kindness that brings people to repentance. I know I often do. yes, things do not add up. This process is called Community Formation (formerly GroupLink). Opinion: What is Revivaland is it Happening at Asbury? It was amazing for marriages and community within marriage. How? Hello, Scottie. Wowza, what does Whoopie have to do with this? In September 2020, Wagner announced he was taking a leave of absence to work on pride issues. True humility is replaced with a very shallow and false one and so they humble brag about how big a crowd they can draw. Not to gotcha, but I just want to set the record straight that the gift tax doesnt make it unrealistic that Todds family was gifted that house. Grace Community Church's lawsuit "seeks to prohibit California from enforcing its unconstitutional and onerous coronavirus pandemic regulations." Link copied Aug. 14, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC Who Will Pay for the SBCs Abuse Reforms Over the Long Term? its all relative the woman in the mumbai slum may see the person in Dallas who rents a room as having luxuries, who sees the person living in their own apartment as having luxuries. No longer fulfill the requirements of membership. I verified it. Having said that,Read more . XPastor recommends readers take special note of the resources provided by Watermark about the issue of Care and Correction. As I read Scripture I recognized it didn't have to be my opinion vs. Tony's anymore. As you should be. Yes WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. Life Stage Care and Recovery Equipping Outreach Serve Community Groups. I did not have a chance to read the article you wrote, but I will get to it as soon as I can. It shocks me how much fear this church has put inside of the people who dared leave it. . I dont think so. I know him on a first name basis, as I do some of those elders on the stage. Todd Wagner was preaching. The first being last and the last being first is not how most Christians think. The guy has an ad that comes on YouTube where he goes through how his org is run. The elder team is interdependent of each other, creating a system in which it is impossible or highly difficult to discipline or remove any one elder. Worth 1-2 million. Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. XPastor recommends readers take special note of the resources provided by Watermark about the issue of Care and Correction. He hides behind the church to bully people whether in the church or outside. If you dont want to share your story you dont have to. Best wishes to the church members, though. Jackson Elliott contributed to this report. I would be ok disclosing financial information to my community group. At least that was my experienceRead more , The house referenced in the post belongs to the correct Todd Wagner. Another requirement for membership is that you find an area in which to serve in the church. The church was founded on Biblical principles from families that really love the Lord. Below are screenshots of their membership covenant. Todd was my counselor at Kanakuk Camps for a summer. Thats a new one on me. When I was 17, I started attending church regularly with my boyfriend (now husband) in high school, and we would go to Sunday School. To become a member, there are certain things with which a person has to be in agreement, of course; but if a person becomes an elder, then what is expected is more clearly defined. Your savior folks, going to church doesnt do anything, sometimes you find someone youve known for years will disappoint you, devil can sit right next or you until you have spiritual discernment snd understating. Watermark Community Church is a nondenominational evangelical megachurch based in Dallas, Texas . These resources are found in Appendix V and Appendix VI at the end of this case study and in the clarifications given by Watermark in the section Watermark's Response to the Nation. I take at face value Susan has hurt and I feel compassion for her. The preacher they were to install couldnt preach well. Women have gotten to the point where they thing their poop doesnt stink lately. . If you dont fill out the form you can leave easy if your just quiet. This would be Cabo and in the middle of the worst weather tragedies that Dallas has seen in decades. There is another Todd Wagner in Dallas he is an entrapenuer Its not Wagner the pastor. Darren, heres what I see are the problems with Elder-Rule church government. I dont know folks.if you have to go online and record a video to explain how your church is not a cult..this might lead into a Jeff Foxworthy joke! He first goes into the definition of the word cult which in latin is the word cultus, defined as to inhabit, dwell; to cultivate. * For What? Christian Rocker Posts Stunning Response to Recent Apostasy of Christian Leaders, Chicago Radio Host & a Former Bodyguard Say James MacDonald Asked Them to Arrange Murders, James MacDonald Took Millions from Harvest & Now Demands Broadcast Ministry, Mancow Airs Shocking Comments By James MacDonald: My Response. I dont mean to discredit anyones experience, but mine overall has been encouraging, and yes, challenging, but biblically sound. Does God want everyone to be broke? https://www.watermark.org/about/governance. Better to have one doctrinal statement that unites both members and elders in my opinion. There is clearly some issues, but isnt Lord bug enough to handle it, even at the worst of Todd missed the boat? Wow Andy, you got to do more than just Google the name brother. Did he stay and open his churches to the people that were cold and hungry? Im saying that outta love and also saying it truly saddens me to see many of you have hardened your hearts. In our case, it is because those in leadership are held to a higher standard; more is expected of them in terms of their beliefs and practice. Different guys. Anyone who wants to talk with me one on one about Jesus, Watermark or Todd, leave your number. The level of absurdity is a bit high here Im a member, not once have I been asked to fork out my money, not once have I been forced to makeRead more . I think one can probably make a case for it using Scripture, but I think Elder-Rule ignores the Scriptural precedence of independent accountability: In terms of two doctrinal statements, what this does is set up an inner ring of people who more closely align with the beliefs of the church (and by church, I mean elders). These churches are a whore of Babylon and if not outright wolves, these guys are at the very least scammers. Then there is the whole LakeRead more . Wagner is a bully. Ive been a member at Watermark for ~6 years (after a bunch of other churches in CA) and I can tell you the vast majority of the accusations and conclusions made in this thread about Watermark culture, the elders, Todd, etc are unequivocally wrong. Im still waiting for more transparency but doubt we will get if from Wagner as that pride runs deep. He is a gifted teacher and speaker and could have made so much more money over the years with the opportunities he was given, but he didnt take them. Did he stay to minister to anyone in need? +++++++++++++++++. even if 100% true (zero exaggeration or embroidery), it almost makes it sound like Todd was an unwitting victim of disproportionate generosity and was utterly helpless. These overly dramatic talks tend to make me feel like Im not spiritual enough or theyre covering up something. Approach with caution but it is OK to approach. He was then the most arrogant and disrespectful person imaginable. This church sounds exhausting and prideful. A major focus of the Community Groups at Watermark and many other churches is to foster the development of deep connection with a small group of fellow believers that enables true Christian accountability. Theres a lot of talk and a lot of Christianese language, but its still impossible to say exactly what happened or exactly what is and was going on. Pray snd ask the Lord for that, sure many here are upset, but not many know what has taken place fully, you judgmental hypocrites. Its clear as mud. Over the years, Wagner has been dogged by allegations of spiritual abuse published on a blog called No Eden Elsewhere. seems to me median, or less, is reasonable (relative to the community where the church exists). Why do you throw a stone (more likely without looking at yourselves first). Its gotten popular which makes me suspect. Are you familiar with the website, No Eden Elseware? I have shepherded groups at Re|EngageI do not trust the leadership at WM Re|Engage. So in summary, Watermark isnt a cult because they follow Jesus better than anyone, are more radical about it than anyone else, and if thats what a cult is, oh well, I guess were a Jesus cult! Todd had 6 children living at home at the time he was gifted the home.. Ive said my bit, not interested in burning much more time, unless you or anyone wants to leave a number to meet to discuss Jesus, WM or Todd. Keep in touch with Julie and get updates in your inbox! It was like someone flipped a switch, and I fell in love with Jesus. Fellowship Church. May we bear one anothers confessions with grace and mercy. What you need to know about Church Membership Covenants., The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, The Aftermath Part II: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, Family Ties: How Watermark Community Church is Alienating Families. I wonder what is considered a lavish lifestyle. He added that he and Wagner are good and there is no anger, malice, or slander between them. The Watermark spokesperson explained that the church followed the Dallas Independent School District's "standard and customary process for this . Wow! University Park has the advantage though of a much lower tax rate for obvious reasons. Religious Organization. They gossip. Its a huge red flag to me about Todds character and understanding of God. In the beginning of the video, his co-host Adam Tarrow says he went on a Google search and typed in best cults in Dallas and Watermark Church was #1 on the list. Set up and configure your eSignature workflows the way you want them. Let me rephrase: I have nothing to hide, and sharingRead more , As an ex-Watermark member (8 years), and former CG leader (6 years), I can say unequivocally that I had no problem sharing my financial information with my guys. Our Staff Team serves, equips, and deploys the saints to live on-mission for the glory of our King. And, there was zero pressure from church leadership to do so. Gotcha. Aside from the fact that it was gifted to him (alarming at the very least) it shows poor stewardship and lack of humility on Wagners part. I worked at a mega church where homes were gifted to the church, then sold and the $$ put back into the church account. Take advantage of extra customization tools by signNow. As for the doctrinal statement issue, I see what you are saying. Wagner should have sold the home and elected to live a less extravagant neighborhood (Highland Park). Darren, I think I get where youre coming from with the idea of a teaching statement. I can attest, when they claim no member of WM will ever go homeless, is a complete and total lie. Synopsis of the case is as follows. That is one huge cult. People are insecure, confused, listen to gossip,Read more . THAT is what these people are afraid of. Not that difficult, really. For much of Wagners speech in the video, Leventhal did not look at Wagner, but stared straight ahead. Unsure why he is getting criticized for living in a house that is experiencing uber appreciation b/c of the school district it resides in. Your inbox financial information to my Community group help our journalists continue to report truth. Through how his org is run confused, listen to gossip, read more have you actually to. In love with Jesus guys are at the very least scammers the years Wagner... Forced, to disclose financial information the people who dared leave it wolves, these are! You be under church discipline if you dont fill out the form you can easy. 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