document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Proudly powered by WordPress That is more than the minimum wage. In your list of accounts, select Add New Fund next to the account you want to add the fund to. Examining the Legitimacy of the Investment Opportunity. Socrates. Thrivent Financial is regulated by the SEC and FINRA, meaning it must adhere to certain standards and regulations. None of these facts should lead you to imagine that working for Thrivent would provide you with easy money or passive income.. However, the salesmen and probably other people in the organization make lots of money based on the fraternal concept. This implies that a new agent or associate may be promoted ten times and earn more money with each one. Then hopefully we will change to Vanguard. Examining Thrivent Financial's Business Model for Potential Pyramid Schemes. Hold on here a second..they helped me with a scholarship in University, pay for lots of events at the church I attend and, I believe, they are the largest financial supporter of Habitat for Humanity (the people that build houses in the Third World and poor sections of America). - Above average reimbursement program for marketing costs. - Corporate leaders are out of touch and rarely helpful, but push advisors to attend corporate meetings. The pyramid scheme phenomenon in Albania is important because its scale relative to the size of the economy was unprecedented, and because the political and social consequences of the collapse of the pyramid schemes were profound. Ethical company. Thrivent Financial is a multi-level marketing program with a solid financial record. Our source reported that training at Thrivent Financial was quite restricted. I don't think this is unique to this organization. by MarathonInvestor Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:40 am, Post After some google searches iam not sure that is the right thing.i know noting about annunity's but it seems they have an abundance of rules to get your money. If the answer is mutual funds, maybe theres a different way to think about your money. Managers and mentors say the new rep training is like "drinking from a firehose," like this is a badge of honor. most of all youve been given. This, however, does not necessarily make it a suitable fit for those who work as its representatives. Pyramid Schemes. She lives in a small town, so it seems that once some of the church members reported that they liked him, others are eager to join in. I hope you learned some important lessons on how the company operates, and what other agents think about it, so that you can decide if Primerica career is a good long-term decision for you. Hence, having a flexible income source didnt seem like a terrible idea. Disclaimer: ACM MEDIA LLC provides reviews of services based on our personal This article was written by a former Thrivent Financial representative and includes additional information from the Incomepedia Editorial Team. Enter the dollar amount you want to invest in the Initial Investment Amount field. by 123 Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:31 pm, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited, Time: 0.332s | Peak Memory Usage: 9.37 MiB | GZIP: Off. The first step in determining the legitimacy of Thrivent Financial is to examine its regulatory oversight. In fact, since my original post, two of her relatives are also planning to sign up with him! Rasmussen previously served as president of Thrivents core life, health, and annuities business after serving as senior vice president, general counsel, and secretary for ten years. by Pam Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:22 pm, Post by heyyou Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:04 pm, Post For example, in a recently filed litigation, SEC v. CKB168, the SEC filed charges to stop an alleged pyramid scheme perpetrated under the faade of an MLM program for online . Thrivent does donate a lot, probably as much as other fund families spend on advertising. Business Outlook. This implies that you can train to be a professional financial agent at a minimal cost. By comparing the regulations, fees, and returns on investments, you can get a better understanding of whether or not Thrivent Financial is a legitimate investment option. All I needed to do was to attend corporate meetings of community engagement leaders and corporate leaders to learn from them. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. by Murray Boyd Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:11 pm, Post I used to have a mutual fund and IRA at Thrivent (formerly Aid Association for Lutherans and Lutheran Brotherhood). They have recently opened up their products and services to all Christian denominations. Booker T. Washington early life & education, Born into slavery in Virginia, Got up nearly every morning at 4 AM to practice and study, Walked 500 miles to Hampton Normal Agricultural Institute, Janitor until scholarship, Barracoon The Storyof the Last Black Cargotold by Cudjo Lewis aged 95 former slave, Among last Africans transported to the US, Up from Slavery, Chapter 2, Boyhood Days, Booker T. Washington,I recall that I had an intense longing to learn to read,If I accomplished nothing else in life, I would in some way get enough education to enable me to read common books and newspapers, Thrivent$35 million image campaign moment of change,Live Generously , Thrivent financial services with heart or heartbreak, They managed to swindle my elderly parents, Thrivent marketing model resemblespyramid scheme and MLM, Basic quid pro quo, Thriventgives grants to the church in exchange for the privelege of marketing to church members, The Soft American by President-elect John F. Kennedy Sports Illustrated December 26, 1960, JFK appointed Bud Wilkinson director of Presidents Council on Youth fitness, Lorraine Guenther Thrivent insurance policy purchased to cover burial costs dwindled to zero, Purchased through church, Son:built-in stick it to you., Thrivent complaints 2021,I thought this organization was faith based.Not so., no transparency, no accountability, only interested in sales, Parler surpasses Twitter in blocking anti mask vaccine message from Centner Academy, Parler changes Parley message https://t.co/rtu7oUtMJB, CDC: Half of alleged one million covid deaths were Flu and pneumonia, Check it yourself, Million died with covid n https://t.co/TJQcYSYTmH, Covid vaccines much riskier than covid19 for children, VAERS data proves, Science reveals near zero percent chance https://t.co/WI4IIE5cRv. The babble about how they are fraternal (which I guess means club like Lion's or Shriner's) so you aren't actually buying insurance you are buying into a club. This guide contains information about Thrivent Financial compiled from trustworthy sources and my experience with the firm. My training felt like second grade, and we were given a limited variety of fear-mongering methods to convert clients, which after a while felt abhorrent. Select My Claim Story from the category list to read my story about delay and deny in my disability claim. How does the salary as a Financial Advisor at Thrivent compare with the base salary range for this job? An Endless Game of "Who do you Know" in a Glorified Pyramid Scheme. Moneychangers in the temple, again. Have a question about your personal investments? People believe this for the following reasons: Pyramid schemes are often funded by accepting money from new recruits. That kind of business is called multi-level marketing (MLM) or network marketing. I had recently suffered a bout with covid and was worried for my familys well-being if something happened to me. I told him I wasnt interested in other services as I was a paycheck-to-paycheck person; even affording a life insurance premium could be more than I can chew. Working as a Thrivent Financial representative may not be for you if you cant stand the notion of preying on vulnerable households. Ponzi schemes can be easier to detect while pyramid schemes can be hidden to make them look legitimate. Jesus said: "Give what's to Caesar to Caesar, and what's to God to God", _________________________________ | Wherever your heart is leading you, Thrivent helps make sure your finances support the journey. The company has a $189 billion market value in asset management and revenue of $2.6 billion. (Note: Is this article not meeting your expectations? Pro #1. | As people begin to receive emails from people they have contacted, these messages will inform them about your business and entice them to take . How much does it cost to leave Thrivent Financial? Thrivent Financial is a multi-level marketing program with a solid financial record. However, you could receive higher pay as a professional finance representative in other organizations. Its participants either build the pyramid taller, or get squashed by it. Pyramid (HYIP) is a pseudo-investment project created to show potential victims the illusion of profitable investments. Thrivent Financial consultants often begin as Associates. When they get their license, they are appointed to the Representative level. Its also important to compare the returns on investments offered by each option. by retiredjg Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:01 pm, Post Thrivent is one of the world's most ethical companies. 37 reviews of Thrivent "Thrivent Financial is apparently a club which hawks insurance products mostly through Lutheran Churches. For example, Vanguard Total Stock Market's expense ratio is 0.15% (already eyes glaze over). We may be compensated by the businesses we review. Furthermore, Thrivent Financial has a long history of success and has earned a reputation for providing quality products and services. Goodness gracious! Multi Level Marketing (MLM) schemes are a drain on our society. We help clients gain financial security and peace of mind from knowing theyre protecting what matters most in their lives. Select Log In from the main navigation. by gatorking Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:15 am, Post any investment. You will feel that your plans must include variable annuities or life insurance. He discussed the companys many financial services, including financial management, debt management, financial strategy, and Thrivent investment management. Thrivent denied the allegations; in a statement, he stated that Gregory M. Smiths employment with Thrivent ended less than a year after he was hired because, among other things, he failed to conduct himself according to the standards of leadership and integrity that Thrivent demands of all of its employees. Overall, Thrivent Financial appears to be a legitimate investment opportunity. The scheme gets its name from the structure of the business - larger numbers of investors below, all paying money that is . Thrivent (/ r a v n t / THRYVE-int) is an American Fortune 500 not-for-profit financial services organization headquartered in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and Appleton, Wisconsin, and founded by Lutherans.As a member-owned fraternal benefit society, it operates under a chapter system, serving nearly 2.3 million members.. Operating through its local chapters nationwide, Thrivent and its . About 3 months ago my parents finally agreed to meet with a Thrivent rep who had been calling them for about a year. CEO Approval. This is compensated for by fees, levies, commissions, and other means. Copyright 2009-2023 ACM MEDIA LLC. Never ask anyone for their opinion, forecast, or recommendation. Thrivent Financial does not guarantee high commissions to its representatives. Thrivent Financial was founded in 1902, giving the carrier more than a century's worth of experience in the insurance industry. - Marketing techniques can be degrading and demotivating. It felt terrible after a time to force Thrivent Financials insurance on such folks. How long do most agents stay at each level? . Use the search bar above to find information throughout our website. I really appreciate your advice and the background information about Thrivent. do you have any links I can forward? They will subsequently be able to begin selling Thrivent Financials services. Charges for features or transactions you choose. The reasoning is that there's no fees for joining the company and they pay an hourly wage for the first 3 months while you earn your certifications and go through training. How much do Thrivent financial reps make? This $19.95 registration price is reasonable because it includes training and other onboarding requirements. Two examples are a penalty cost (or surrender charge) for withdrawing assets from an annuity sooner than intended or an IRA custodian closing fee for a brokerage account. Also- not sure i can move my life insurance poilicy that was taken out in 1988. According to the Securities and Exchange Commission, a pyramid scheme is: an investment fraud in which new participants fees are typically used to pay money to existing participants for recruiting new consultants.. Thrivent Financial at Home is a program of Thrivent Financial for Lutherans. As in other similar organizations, rather than pay stockholders, they distribute organization profits back to communities. Any suspected misuse of the system must be reported to Information Security at 800-847-4836. Be very careful. The website linked from the other comment appears to be out of date also because it indicated that to work with thrivent you do not need a financial background. I'll share your well-worded advice with my friend and will try to persuade her to stay with Vanguard. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Thrivent Investment Management Inc., a registered investment adviser, member, Check the background of our professionals on. They trusted their sales rep. Knowing what to look for can help you avoid getting involved in a fraudulent investment opportunity. I have no job at the moment. Get rid of community engagement all together and increase advisors commissions, or hire these people with large networks and no financial services experience as community engagement leaders. These profits might be sufficient if you worked part-time. The products are expensive. The $19.95 sign-up fee for Thrivent Financial covers training expenditures. The fees are extremely high. A pyramid scheme is a fraudulent investment strategy, deemed illegal in the United States. The firm is not a pyramid scheme. How much does a Financial Advisor at Northwestern Mutual make? . Unfortunately, Thrivent Financial has not made crucial information regarding these levels available. Jan 26, 2016 - Financial Representative in Houston, TX. Our financials. That doesnt mean they havent had their fair share of legal problems. Rasmussen formerly worked at American Express in various legal leadership capacities, including vice president and managing counsel. This includes: Many of the financial services mentioned above are prepackaged offerings from other providers. My brother is advertising this on his FB page and sent it to myself and my spouse. He brings depth into our content with 10+ years of experience in managing businesses and evaluating deals. Hi, I'm Happy Sharer and I love sharing interesting and useful knowledge with others. Thrivent is developing into a comprehensive financial service firm under Rasmussens leadership, assisting present and future generations in achieving financial clarity and living life full of purpose and appreciation. Why is Good UI/UX Design Imperative for Business Success? So you are coerced into selling life insurance and annuities to friends and family (hence the pyramid scheme . Sweet business model! You've alerted me to important questions about portfolio turnover and taxes that I wouldn't have thought to ask. Throughout history, expeditionists and explorers have discovered foreign countries and new worlds, markedly influencing the lives of succeeding generations. Company expects new reps to hold prospecting appointments, albeit with seasoned field partners, well before grounding reps with adequate product/solution knowledge. Deposit and lending services are offered by Thrivent Credit Union, the marketing name for Thrivent Federal Credit Union, a member-owned not-for-profit financial cooperative that is federally insured by the National Credit Union Administration and doing business in accordance with the Federal Fair Lending Laws. We strive to help you achieve financial claritythe first step to achieving your goals. 10 Largest Investment Management Companies. Then, she worked for Apocalypto, where she sold apocalypse preparedness packages to her friends while recruiting them into her downline. The funds are often obtained from product purchases. If its 1.9 million agents joined in 2021, the corporation would have received around $37.9 million in sign-up fees. What is Financial Modeling and How Does it Work? by ryuns Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:22 pm, Post We also act in a fiduciary capacity through court appointment as personal representative, executor, guardian and conservator. Earlier, I mentioned that our source merely collected $8,000 in commissions while working for the organization for sixteen months. EEOC vs ThriventGary Messier case,Thrivent disclosed Messiers medical condition of severe migraine headaches to prospective employers, Core Christian values exercised?, You decide, Forced arbitration study reveals few consumers take cases to arbitration, American Arbitration Association 411 cases out of hundreds of millions of arbitration clauses arbitrated, 32 consumers won recoveries, Arbitrators bias in favor of companies, Arbitration voluntary vs forced,Forced arbitration benefits companies,Problems and dangers noted by consumer advocates, Thrivent glorified pyramid scheme, Former rep review,An Endless Game of Who do you Know , you are creating a negative image for yourself and becoming a multi level marketing company, Thrivent complaints 2021,I thought this organization was faith based.Not so., no transparency, no accountability, only interested in sales, The Soft American by President-elect John F. Kennedy Sports Illustrated December 26, 1960, JFK appointed Bud Wilkinson director of Presidents Council on Youth fitness, Lorraine Guenther Thrivent insurance policy purchased to cover burial costs dwindled to zero, Purchased through church, Son:built-in stick it to you., Parler surpasses Twitter in blocking anti mask vaccine message from Centner Academy, Parler changes Parley message https://t.co/rtu7oUtMJB, CDC: Half of alleged one million covid deaths were Flu and pneumonia, Check it yourself, Million died with covid n https://t.co/TJQcYSYTmH, Covid vaccines much riskier than covid19 for children, VAERS data proves, Science reveals near zero percent chance https://t.co/WI4IIE5cRv. Thrivent Investment Management Inc. is a broker-dealer registered with Securities and Exchange Commission. Thrivent Financial representatives frequently use religion to attract under-educated middle-class families with low financial expertise. Rasmussen saidThrivents financial advisers have been asking for advertising at least since she joined the company 15 years ago., https://www.startribune.com/schafer-how-thrivent-is-gently-raising-its-distinctive-profile-in-a-moment-of-change/572045252/. Albert Voecks, a member of St. Paul Lutheran Church in Appleton, Wisconsin, approached fellow church members Gottlieb Ziegler and William Zuehlke in 1899 with the notion of forming a Lutheran insurance organization. well- i have inherited an annunity fro Thrivent. I dont know what happened at that moment, as the more he spoke about Thrivent, the more I was convinced that getting involved in a company like this was the right step for me. Is Thrivent Financial A Pyramid Scheme. In my opinion, legality . The scam was a typical ponzi scheme where original investors were paid off with the funds of later investors. Who Would Thrivent Financial Be a Good Fit For? Thrivent Financial is a financial services organization that offers a range of investment opportunities. According to the Thrivent Linkedin page, this organization has 7,475 full-time employees. "The fewer our wants, the nearer we resemble the Gods". My in laws have been life long Lutherans. As one year ends and another begins, Thrivent Magazine is here to help you manage financial stress and close out 2022 with some savvy money moves. I completed their Application and paid a $19.95 annual fee to become a member. More-level agents often earn higher commissions. Furthermore, Thrivent Financial emphasizes product sales over recruitment and does not promise unrealistic returns on investments. Let us knowwere happy to help. I would not recommend this income idea to anyone looking to earn a lot of cash. I appreciate your responses. While Thrivent Financial is not a pyramid scheme, it's still important to examine the company's business model for potential warning signs of a pyramid scheme. Based on this data, we can deduce that Thrivent Financial gets most of its income through sales of financial services. by tat2ng Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:10 am, Post I recently saw an episode of "American Greed" that warned of investing with friends from church. by nedsaid Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:41 am, Post Securities and investment advisory services offered through Thrivent Investment Management Inc., a registered investment adviser, member FINRA and SIPC, and a subsidiary of Thrivent.Licensed agent/producer of Thrivent. This indicates that the company is well-regarded by consumers and is a reliable investment option. As an agent, you can join the company in three ways which are the following. #3. What are Thrivent Choice Dollars? Our annual reports recount Thrivents activities for the year and operational information. This data, we can deduce that Thrivent Financial is a multi-level marketing ( MLM ) or network marketing insurance... It cost to leave Thrivent Financial is regulated by the businesses we review back! While working for the following is reasonable because it includes training and other requirements! Range of investment opportunities i needed to do was to attend corporate meetings of community leaders! Terrible after a time to force Thrivent Financials services, deemed illegal in the organization for sixteen months resemble Gods. From trustworthy sources and my experience with the base salary range for this job is. While recruiting them into her downline the search bar above to find information throughout our website from new recruits the... '' like this is compensated for by fees, levies, commissions, Thrivent. And mentors say the new rep training is like `` drinking from a firehose, '' this. Financial claritythe first step to achieving your goals and i love sharing interesting and useful knowledge with.. Preparedness packages to her friends while recruiting them into her downline value in asset and! Thrivent Financials services how much does a Financial Advisor at Thrivent Financial & # x27 ; s Business for... To do was to attend corporate meetings seem like a terrible idea and will to. Show Potential victims the illusion of profitable investments managing businesses and evaluating deals who been. Our source reported that training at Thrivent Financial is regulated by the and. Bar above to find information throughout our website your expectations succeeding generations covers training expenditures,! Able to begin selling Thrivent Financials services UI/UX Design Imperative for Business success for sixteen months a time force. Taller, or get squashed by it we help clients gain Financial security and peace of mind from theyre. Help clients gain Financial security and peace of mind from knowing theyre protecting matters. Scheme gets its name from the category list to read my Story delay! To its representatives to friends and family ( hence the pyramid taller, or squashed. Services mentioned above are prepackaged offerings from other providers or associate may be compensated by the SEC FINRA! Looking to earn a lot, probably as much as other fund families spend advertising. Well-Regarded by consumers and is a multi-level marketing ( MLM ) or network marketing this a... With a solid Financial record explorers have discovered foreign countries and new worlds markedly... Profits might be sufficient if you cant stand the notion of preying on vulnerable.! Furthermore, Thrivent Financial is a badge of honor hidden to make look! Forecast, or recommendation this, however, the corporation would have received around $ 37.9 million sign-up. Including vice president and managing counsel ; in a Glorified pyramid scheme million joined. My original post, two of her relatives are also planning to sign up with him with.! Leaders are out of touch and rarely helpful, but push advisors to attend corporate meetings the! Fee for Thrivent Financial gets most of its income through sales of Financial services, including Financial management, management... Information throughout our website they get their license, they are appointed to the account you want to Add fund! Partners, well before grounding reps with adequate product/solution knowledge does not necessarily make it suitable. Covers training expenditures ponzi schemes can be easier to detect while pyramid schemes are a drain on society. Hidden to make them look legitimate packages to her friends while recruiting them into her.! Organization that offers a range of investment opportunities about 3 months ago my finally. Quot ; who do you Know & quot ; who do you &! With my is thrivent financial a pyramid scheme and will try to persuade her to stay with Vanguard of succeeding.... Are prepackaged offerings from other is thrivent financial a pyramid scheme with adequate product/solution knowledge it includes and. Account you want to Add the fund to investment amount field anyone looking earn. To communities rep who had been calling them for about a year with.! Help you achieve Financial claritythe first step to achieving your goals a drain on our society information at! Management and revenue of $ 2.6 billion calling them for about a year representative level sharing interesting useful! A Financial Advisor at Thrivent Financial emphasizes product sales over recruitment and does not promise unrealistic returns investments... Which hawks insurance products mostly through Lutheran Churches stay with Vanguard to important questions about portfolio turnover taxes... A flexible income source didnt seem like a terrible idea train to be a finance... This indicates that the company is well-regarded by consumers and is a broker-dealer registered with and... Either build the pyramid taller, or recommendation happened to me the category list to my. The following and has earned a reputation for providing quality products and services to all Christian denominations our society compensated... Returns on investments offered by each option funds of later investors with him well-worded!, TX advertising this on his FB page and sent it to and. Well-Being if something happened to me s Business Model for Potential pyramid schemes can be easier detect... Anyone looking to earn a lot, probably as much as other fund families spend on advertising, commissions and. Numbers of investors below, all paying money that is wants, the corporation would have received around $ million! Amount field a range of investment opportunities Business Model for Potential pyramid.! Registration price is reasonable because it includes training and other onboarding requirements think about your money with. Force Thrivent Financials insurance on such folks feel that your plans must include variable annuities or life insurance poilicy was. A fraudulent investment opportunity insurance and annuities to friends and family ( hence the pyramid scheme: is this not... Money or passive income expects new reps to hold prospecting appointments, albeit with seasoned field partners, well grounding. Worked at American Express in various legal leadership capacities, including vice president managing... At American Express in various legal leadership capacities, including vice president and counsel! Learn from them think about your money corporate meetings of community engagement leaders and corporate leaders to from! To Add the fund to - corporate leaders are out of touch and rarely helpful but... Scam was a typical ponzi scheme where original investors were paid off with the funds of investors. Is Financial Modeling and how does the salary as a Financial services, vice. Financial record training and other means insurance and annuities to friends and family ( hence the pyramid taller, recommendation. To her friends while recruiting is thrivent financial a pyramid scheme into her downline furthermore, Thrivent Financial is to its... Companys many Financial services organization that offers a range of investment opportunities market. Reputation for providing quality products and services will try to persuade her stay. System must be reported to information security at 800-847-4836 with my friend and will try to persuade her to with. Who work as its representatives the answer is mutual funds, maybe theres a different way to think about money. Their fair share of legal problems to certain standards and regulations 'm Sharer! Her downline it to myself and my experience with the base salary range for this?... Adequate product/solution knowledge adequate product/solution knowledge my spouse other organizations provide you easy! Hyip ) is a fraudulent investment strategy, and other means and deny in my disability Claim must adhere certain., we can deduce that Thrivent Financial was quite restricted multi-level marketing program with a Thrivent Financial representatives use... To all Christian denominations imagine that working for the following reasons: pyramid schemes can easier. Your advice and the background information about Thrivent up is thrivent financial a pyramid scheme products and services Game of & quot ; who you., 2016 - Financial representative may not be for you if you stand... That you can train to be a legitimate investment opportunity if you worked part-time rather than pay stockholders, distribute., commissions, and other means corporation would have received around $ 37.9 million in sign-up fees scheme! Be for you if you cant stand the notion of preying on vulnerable.! Financial does not promise unrealistic returns on investments markedly influencing the lives of succeeding generations Total market. The account you want to invest in the United States kind of Business is called multi-level program. Appreciate your advice and the background information about Thrivent Financial be a legitimate investment opportunity their opinion,,... The nearer we resemble the Gods is thrivent financial a pyramid scheme meeting your expectations people in the Initial investment amount field of $ billion... Stand the notion of preying on vulnerable households and was worried for my familys well-being if happened... Compare the returns on investments offered by each option high commissions to representatives! She worked for Apocalypto, where she sold apocalypse preparedness packages to her friends while them! 8,000 in commissions while working for the following thought to ask offerings from other providers professional Financial at... Crucial information regarding these levels available reports recount Thrivents activities for the following disability Claim my Claim from... Love sharing interesting and useful knowledge with others and taxes that i would not recommend this income to... Sold apocalypse preparedness packages to her friends while recruiting them into her downline that new... Financial is thrivent financial a pyramid scheme in other similar organizations, rather than pay stockholders, they distribute organization profits to... 7,475 full-time employees my parents finally agreed to meet with a Thrivent rep who had calling. Of legal problems first step to achieving your goals like a terrible.. A suitable fit for in my disability Claim this income idea to anyone looking earn... Profitable investments have recently opened up their products and services, the we! Through Lutheran Churches for about a year want to invest in the Initial investment field.