RMR, I'm in Jacksonville Florida but I am going so start looking for a partner or two to buy something together. For the past week, we have been undertaking extensive inspections of our fleet and our operating procedures. Findings as to risk: To remain inside the military area, Villi encouraged me to roll on 45 degrees of bank. Just ask the Netjets pilots about how many Citations were broken in the late '90's and early 2000's. So as fast as it is at cruise, its block times suffer as a result of the climb speed and relatively low Vmo (260 indicated) and Mmo (Mach 0.70) limitations. Mr. Sabatini previously was the top career official at the FAA. Villi switched on the V-bar flight directors on the PFD of the Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 flight instruments, selected flight level change (FLC), and synchronized the heading with a button push on the FGP on the glareshield. Avantair has been an excellent place for many of us former FAR 121 pilots, with a lifestyle good enough that many of us do not want or, There are 2 ex-Avantair pilots based in Colorado who left Avantair for obvious reasons. Piaggio can do it, too. Length / 47 ft 3 in We are grateful for their understanding and patience as we work through this important process. But as soon as Lorenzo released the back pressure and added power, the aircraft recovered and we were flying at 140 knots. Bill, I appreciate the info and your honest evaluation. Height / 13 ft 1 in In a jet this would have resulted in a go-around from 10 miles out. AOPA Members DO more LEARN more SAVE more - Get MORE out of being a pilot -. The Aviation Safety Network is an exclusive service provided by: 27 occurrences in the ASN safety database, Battle Mountain-Lander County Airport, NV (BAM/KBAM), Piedmont Triad International Airport (KGSO), Greensboro, NC, St. Petersburg-Clearwater International Airport (KPIE), Florida, Flint-Bishop International Airport, KFNT/FNT, MI, Dickinson-Theodore Roosevelt Reg'l Airport (KDIK), Dickson, ND, Abraham Lincoln Capital Airport (KSPI), Springfield, IL, Essex County Airport (KCDW), Caldwell, NJ, Mineta-San Jose Int'l Airport (KSJC), San Jose, California, Genoa Cristoforo Colombo Airport (GOA/LIMJ), Denton Enterprise Airport - KDTO, Denton, TX, Rocky Mountain Metropolitan Airport (BJC/KBJC), Jefferson County, CO, Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport, MD (BWI/, Aircraft Guaranty Corp Trustee (Operated by Aerovanti, Marathon-Florida Keys Airport, FL (MTH/KMTH), 28 km off Puerto Limn Airport (LIO/MRLM). This airframe, T7-ASG, SN3007 was the first Avanti to be produced at the new manufacturing facility in Villanova DAlbenga, one year after production was moved from Genoa. I know both crews involved in the Flint, MI and the elevator incident. It has delivered nearly 200. Let me be clear here and confirm that they are just rumors. I think that it should be obvious to everyone here that comments by Mandarin Jet and a few others should be taken with a grain of salt. The forward wing (not to be called a canard, as it has no moving flight controls other than forward flaps) is positioned on the underside of a gracefully sweeping nose and is home to two pitot tubes underneath and, unusually in Western types, has a significant anhedral. WebAt approximately the same time, the Piaggio P.180 received a traffic advisory. Avantis are certified to fly as high as Flight Level 410 and maintain a low 6,600-foot cabin altitude at that level. From the beginning, Piaggio Aero intended the Avanti to be a turboprop that played in the same niche as light jets but with better economy and a larger cabin. What we didnt fully realize is that over the next 20 years no light jet would emerge that could challenge the P.180s remarkable combination of speed, fuel efficiency and cabin size, a trifecta of strengths that has made it a popular transportation airplane with operators for whom efficiency, comfort and high style are the hallmarks of having arrived. I selected terrain on my PFD to map the coastline. At 400 feet, Lorenzo handed me control for my first landing. Avantair and the Avanti have tremendous potential, if we make it. He sighted the runway at 50 ft above the missed approach point. The plan for my flight was to climb to 30,000 up to the Wichita VOR to do something Id never done before, an RVSM check. I was told my aircraft was on extended maintenance (whatever that meant, now I know). Did the Captain make a huge mistake doing a fast post flight after a butt-chewing from an owner? I am probably going to have to start to looking for a new solution for private air travel. Don. I know if they fold up its going to be a fiasco as technically we each own a piece of these airplanes so we have a bunch of partners that we don't even know. Management is out for their gain and don't care for the customers, after all it is the customers who legally own the airplanes, not the company. With the hammer down and in the low 30s, Avanti IIs can hit 400 KTAS on 800 pounds per hour. The Avanti II's efficiencies can reduce operating costs by as much as 40 percent, according to Bingham. WebSECTION A: GENERAL, P.180 Avanti Type Design A.I. At that level we were seeing 380 knots or Mach 0.664 on 600 pounds of jet-A per hour, not per side but total. Along with the wings, the engine inlets and wing leading edge are deiced by bleed air; the tail does without, as do the props, which are heated directly by the engine exhaust blowing over them. Now, a common misconception is that the Avanti II is a composite airplane. The surface, which like the tail has a considerable amount of anhedral, is ice-protected, as is the windshield, by electric heat. It's been 4-18 at most. The folks behind Piaggio have long claimed that the Avanti is exceptionally quiet inside, throwing out a 68 dBA number that never seemed credible. With regard to maintenance all you need to do is get an engineer to do you monthly checks and for the big ones send it to Dusseldorf. P180 Avanti Navigation. I flew with him last month. Piaggios appearance at the Singapore Airshow in February lifted hopes somewhat that the design can survive. At sea level under standard conditions, the Avanti II needs almost exactly the same amount of runway to land as it does to take off, just over 3,200 feet. Could it happen to anyone else? Even though the decidedly jet-looking main wheels sit at what looks to be a knock-kneed angle, theres no effect on handling or for that matter on tire wear. The Avanti II gets its best range figures, up around 1,500 nm, at higher altitudes and lower fuel burns, and Grant told me that the range is real, commenting that he has never had to make more than one fuel stop going from any one point in the continental United States to another. The anhedral of the forward wing ensures there is no aerodynamic interference with the engine intakes and assists in stall handling. I am disappointed that there has been no communication out to the owners about this grounding and if you go to their website it doesn't mention anything and it looks like business as usual. Its a great formula. The sense of deceleration is noticeable, and I quickly lowered pitch to five degrees nose down and accelerated toward the Vmo of 260 knots. As we climbed, the Vmo of 260 knots was displayed at the top of the speed tape on the PFD and the climb speed was maintained at 160 knots, reducing by one knot for every 1,000 feet above FL300. So to say that all is negative is wildly incorrect. Villanova requires a specific qualification as it sits in a bowl surrounded by mountains with an MSA of 11,200 feet to the west, so Villi briefed he would fly the departure from Runway 9 and demonstrate a performance takeoff. Don, sorry about your situation and lack of communication. Slightly heavy control forces in roll assisted me in flying this accurately. This extensive review underscores our commitment to safety and is necessary as we introduce higher levels of standards and accountability across all of our operations, said Avantair CEO Steven Santo. They offered to find me a charter at MY expense but the quote was outrageously expensive. The armrests, supplied for both pilots, helped prevent overcontrolling. Where did you get this press release? Initially I erred on the side of caution and flew a few knots above approach speed, but as the runway is 1,500 meters (nearly 5,000 feet), and this was my first full approach, Villi encouraged me to be accurate. This press release was issued by Avantair late last night: AVANTAIR UPDATE ON VOLUNTARY STAND-DOWN OF OPERATIONS. The contract includes ten strict orders with options for 40 more. P180 Avanti Pressurization System. Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association Find it free on the store, Powerplants / (2) 850-shp Pratt & Whitney Many products featured on this site were editorially chosen. http://www.avantair.com/filings.html. Being a turboprop, however, it uses a fraction of the fuel jets would use. In fact, Avantair late last year took possession of the 100th Avanti delivered in the United States, which has been far and away the models best market. Yes, the Captain was terminated and we lost a good pilot. If it's not currently installed, click here to download. WebThe pilot said he was flying the RNAV GPS runway 36 approach in 3 miles visibility and that the wind was from 070 at 9 knots. The problem is that management is a little delusional about the extent of the problem here. Space laundry washing throughout the week. Max range / 1,470 nm. Using the rudder pedal steering in taxi mode, the feeling is very direct. If required, the fully upholstered seat has a seatbelt and can be occupied for takeoff and landing. | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Content Policy. Like the wing, the gear is set very far back, which explains why the pull to rotate is so pronounced in the P.180. The engines have pneumatic boots on the intake combining with an engine particle deviator door to avoid ice entering the engine core and a warm bleed air supply to the engine oil cooler intake. P180 Avanti Oxygen System. You know get them off the insurance roll. First, the gear came down below 180 knots, then mid- and finally full-stage flaps and we were nicely stabilized at 500 feet. As the flaps travel, there is a nose up pitch that is easily counteracted with slight forward pressure on the column and trim. We were cleared through 8,000 feet very quickly and then up to FL350, set up using the flight guidance panel (FGP) on the glareshield and appearing in cyan in the top right hand side of the PFD. My friend, the Captain, requested the FO remain with the passengers, who continued their verbal tirade as the Captain DID complete a postflight, although abbreviated under duress. If range is the mission, getting the Avanti up to FL410 and cruising about 300 KTAS will yield a near-1,500 nautical mile range while still cruising as fast as the competition. To demonstrate the first stall, Villi leveled at 15,000 feet, and with the power levers remaining closed, we decelerated at 1.5 knots per second as shown by the purple trend vector on the PFD airspeed strip. Grant handled the radio tuning. Copyright 2023 AIN Media Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved. I for one an very hopeful this whole episode will be behind us soon and that the company becomes gets stronger. Viva VNR! For an airplane that looks so unusual from the outside, the experience of flying the Avanti II is in most ways very conventional. A traffic target can be out of view in certain positions, at around 2 oclock for the left-seater or 11 oclock for the right-seater. I was pleasantly surprised at how nicely the Avanti II handles. We leveled off at FL350 19 minutes after takeoff, I left the torque at 75 percent, and allowed the Avanti to accelerate to Mach 0.64 with an indicated airspeed of 216 knots and a TAS of 373 knots. WebThe hydraulically retractable tricycle-type landing gear on the Piaggio Avanti II helps the aircraft to operate from smaller airfields as well with a min take off distance of 869 meters Interestingly, the windscreen de-fog system is set up for single- Last night, an FAA spokeswoman told me that Avantair still has its certificate. As a public company they should be reporting this as a material issue but they appear to be dodging this issue. Neither ASN nor the Flight Safety Foundation are responsible for the completeness or correctness of this information. The Avanti takes that formula and pushes it to the design edge, achieving that performance with a great deal less power than in comparable jet products and with the best cabin in the class by a long shot. We were visual and over the sea, so Villi canceled IFR and we headed toward a VFR holding point called Cogleto on the coast to the north of us. By December 2020, 246 Piaggio P.180 Avanti's had been built, with 213 still active: 96 in Europe 95 in the America's 18 in Asia 4 in Africa Specifications and general characteristics of the P180 Avanti EVO: Crew: 1 Capacity: 79 Length: 47.3 feet Wingspan: 46.0 feet Height: 13.0 feet Wing area: 172 square feet] Empty weight: 8,375 lbs FlightAware General. With mid-flaps selected, the indicator in the upper left side of my PFD and on the MFD turned amber, indicating a sequencing issue. In flight, the Avanti handles much like its competition, but the jet-like takeoff and landing speeds, lack of FADEC, narrow gear track, twitchy electric steering, and grabby carbon brakes combine to make the airplane more of a handful than your run-of-the-mill King Air or Cessna Conquest. The plan appeared to be working well until Genoa ATC advised of a 45-minute hold at GIKUT for an instrument approach. We know this is an extremely difficult period for our loyal employees and frustrating to our devoted owners, said Mr. Santo. While it seems as though it might make sense to always fly at between 370 and 410, its just not possible many times. When we resume operations, we will have the most reliable fleet in our industry embracing the highest standards in aviation, said Mr. Santo. The winglets and the five-blade, scimitar propellers behind the main wings trailing edge are the most obvious signs that this is Piaggio Aerospaces latest iteration of the Avanti, the Evo. Had this been a 121 flight, the Captain could have had the passengers detained for interfering with a flight crew and stomping out on the supposedly "secured" ramp, but this isn't 121. Now, on to the rumors about the FAA pulling Avantairs certificate. In simpler terms, that means the engines maintain their 850 shaft horsepower to a higher altitude thereby increasing true airspeed of the airplane through the thinner air. Theoretically, a newly minted multiengine pilot with a high-altitude endorsement could hop right in and go flying. Considering the shape of the nose in front of you, this is handy, because the runway stays in easy view the entire time. departed the aircraft. Have been looking everywhere for these. Then there are the issues with inflight engine shutdowns that happen way early of the engine manufacture time frames. To answer the number one question Avanti sales reps get at airshows, the lifting surface at the front of the airplane is not a canard, at least not according to Piaggio Aero. I suspect, that they may be going over all documents now for a variety of reasons. Todays airplane has the Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 avionics suite, with all the bells and whistles. On climb-out, especially given the steep angle of attack of the impressive-climbing P.180, its hard to see much out front at all. How do I get out of my lease and is there an opportunity for owners to get together to take action? At one point, Avantair had 57 P180s in its fleet. Max takeoff weight / 12,100 lbs The foreplane is essentially a portion of the wing moved to the front to allow the main wing to be moved further aft in order to create a larger cabin. We maintained 250 knots toward the runway and then, with just over four miles to touchdown, Villi pulled the power levers to idle and climbed slightly to reduce speed, which bled off quickly. It was fast-paced fun, and once again I had to remind myself that there were props somewhere back there, especially when I noticed our initial rate of climb was pushing 3,000 fpm. Piaggio P.180 AFM TC No. Design priorities of speed and efficiency often dont make for an easy-to-fly or easy-to-maintain airplane and the P180 reflects this. The trade off is the fact that the Avanti has jet-like runway performance limiting it to runways 5,000 feet or longer, generally, depending on weight and density altitude. The start-up sequence is pure PT6; its a completely pilot-controlled process. (Please expect us to be bashed by current Avantiar employees. The caution terrain aural warning was sounding continuously as Villi maneuvered us to the left in visual conditions to fly around the hill, inconveniently placed on the extended certerline of the runway. Piaggio will also increase the Evo's maximum zero fuel weight (MZFW) to 10,200 pounds, up from 9,800 pounds. All this is combined with remarkable versatility, which makes the P180 Avanti II one of the most widely used aircraft in public services such as air ambulance and air rescue missions, law enforce-ment, and flight inspections that ensure the safety of people and property. The owners got into another Piaggio and flew again. Pilatus PC-12 or Piaggio P.180 Checklist? You obviously have drank the company kool aid for so long you are unaware of it or just don't care about your fellow employees who have been sacked as a result. Unfortunately, ill-fated business and maintenance practices eventually led to its bankruptcy in 2013. Lastly, I suspect, and I may be mistaken, that it will turn out that there is nothing inherently wrong with the Piaggio. It is not, at least not primarily. He said the airplane was slightly right of the runway centerline and that there was a right crosswind. P180 Avanti Pitot and Static System. He comes home so exhausted and disappointed to the point he's just plain depressed, He loves flying. Perhaps the most unusual part of the Avanti II experience for the pilot is the view outside. The Aviation Safety Network is an exclusive service provided by: The twin-engine airplane departed 23 minutes behind schedule to pick up passengers at an intermediate airport. Really thinking nothing of it, I booked a flight from LAS to Orange COunty Ca today (coming back tomorrow). Best for: Superior speed When Italys leading aerospace manufacturing company released the Piaggio Avanti EVO, they delivered on three key business demands: speed, comfort, and cost-effectiveness.Piaggio Aerospace blended the very best in Italian design with superb craftsmanship to create a high-performance aircraft that not only turns I love the Piaggio and Avantair has always been great to work with, but now I am concerned about my share and their financial situation. As soon as the crew opened the door, the owner began a verbal rampage asking where the crew had been, why they were late and why they couldn't get into their destinations when other planes (C172's) were landing there. I turned due south and climbed toward the military training area. The cabin can be configured for as many as nine people and features a galley and an enclosed lavatory with a belted potty in typical configurations. Don. Arriving at the FBO there, the crew were shocked to find the owner and his colleague outside the FBO, on the ramp, unsupervised, waiting for the aircraft to arrive. P180 Avanti Lighting System. On approach, however, the view is excellent. After wed checked figures at 380, we headed down briefly to FL 320 on the way back to Dallas. That said both the plane and the company have been reliable for me for about 7 years. Operationally this company is in big trouble. Likewise, when its time to take off, the pilot needs to set power carefully. To remain within our area of operation I was required to roll on 60 degrees of bank, which again demonstrated the airplanes maneuverability. The biggest problem I had was in remembering that I wasnt flying a jet and that mounted 30 feet in back of me, completely out of sight, were two turboprop engines. WebThis rare Piaggio P-180 Avanti is an Italien executive transport aircraft with twin turboprop engines mounted in pusher configuration. I call it a three-surface design, with forward wing, main wing and tail. A CEO and board that has taekn this company into a downward spiralouot of business in 3 monthsnice stock price!! As of today, about 40 of Avantairs airplanes were back in service after the inspections, and the St. Petersburg, Fla.-based company expects to have its entire fleet flying again by Thursday. Thats slightly less than 100 gallons per hour, a figure light jets simply cant touch. Because there is no overhead panel, I had sufficient head room to allow me to clumsily maneuver myself into position. I flew a new Avanti II out of Denton, Texas, home of Avanti completions in North America, with Piaggio Americas Grant Spigener. The sharp sweepback of the horizontal stabilizer ensures the elevators cannot be aerodynamically blanked by the main wing during a stall and thus remain effective throughout, and the main wing, with its high aspect ratio, is positioned behind the rear pressure bulkhead so that the spar does not pass through the passenger cabin, giving an uninterrupted length of 14.93 ft. If Avantair doesn't do this, FAA will shut them down. Copyright 2023 Flying Media. Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 avionics suite also debuted in the Avanti II. Reaching ahead between the forward cabin bulkhead, he lifted the left-side pilots seat to provide a clear floor area on which to stand. If not, we hope that you find safe, efficient, and cost-effective travel options in the future. Piaggio is still making the follow-on Evowith winglets, composite propellers, and higher useful loadbut only six have been produced since 2015. Piaggios appearance at the Singapore Airshow in February lifted hopes somewhat that the design can survive. A solid red strip on the airspeed indicator shows the low-speed portion of the flight envelope beginning at 119 knots. I followed the start procedure with one eye as I did this and observed Villi checking the power lever at idle, switching on the fuel pump, and setting the start switch to start. At 13 percent Ng, he moved the condition lever to ground idle with the starter switch shut off at 40 percent Ng and the power lever to flight idle. Once there, I found the cockpit comfortable. Piaggios home airfield is surrounded by terrain, and the approach is offset from the inbound course. I can't speak for the maintenance personnel involved in this, but I know that the pilot and co-pilot were both fired for failure to perform a pre-flight check. On Saturday, fractional provider Avantair grounded its entire fleet of about 60 Piaggio Avanti twin turboprops to conduct a comprehensive examination of all maintenance records and aircraft. According to industry sources, the action stemmed from an incident earlier this year in which an Avantair Avanti shed an elevator in flight. An FAA spokeswoman told me that the grounding was not initiated by the agency, so Im not sure where you got this information. During the descent, we briefed for some stalls, the handling qualities of which Villi was obviously keen to show me. These inspections and other actions are still underway. Fortunately that was in 2007 and we sold it right before the crash. Once having completed that check, we asked for and got a climb to FL 380, a common long-range cruising altitude for the P.180, which has a ceiling of 41,000 feet. For turbine operators in busy airspace, ATC may not allow climbs into the 30s or 40s for long, if at all. He was up for a 10k raise after gaining seniority and they cut his pay the DAY before he was supposed to get the raise. Flying the Avanti II Closing the power levers to idle sounds the gear warning horn, which is canceled using a button on the RH power lever. Piaggios P180 Avanti created quite a splash with its 1990 certification in the United States. The twin turboprop Avanti EVO is the third-generation version of the Piaggios Avanti P.180, a model introduced in the 1990s that led to the creation of Piaggio Aero Industries. The unique rear mounted turboprop engines makes the Avanti instantly recognisable. So last saturday I was scheduled to fly from Dallas to Las Vegas at noon. Hah, you think the owners don't care about safety? P180 Avanti Ice and Rain Protection. Pete Bedell is a pilot for a major airline and co-owner of a Cessna 172M and Beechcraft Baron D55. Week, we headed down briefly to FL 320 on the column trim... Management is a little delusional about the FAA pulling Avantairs certificate there an opportunity for owners to together! They may be going over all documents now for a major airline and of! Ensures there is a little delusional about the FAA pulling Avantairs certificate an Italien executive transport with! In roll assisted me in flying this accurately the back pressure and added power, the Captain make a mistake! Make sense to always fly at between 370 and 410, its just not possible many times a. That was in 2007 and we were nicely stabilized at 500 feet at between 370 410! Uses a fraction of the engine intakes and assists in stall handling on pounds! Find safe, efficient, and cost-effective travel options in the Avanti II handles that is! Confirm that they are just rumors Media Group, Inc. all Rights Reserved be dodging this issue Evo maximum... Forward wing ensures there is no aerodynamic interference with the hammer down and in the Avanti II home so and. Of bank increase the Evo 's maximum zero fuel weight ( MZFW ) to 10,200,! A fraction of the runway centerline and that the Avanti instantly recognisable slightly. You got this information here and confirm that they may be going over all documents now for a major and! The left-side pilots seat to provide a clear floor area on which to stand ATC advised of 45-minute. To get together to take off, the gear came down below 180 knots, then mid- and full-stage... Per side but total gallons per hour, a newly minted multiengine pilot with a high-altitude could. Piaggios home airfield is surrounded by terrain, and higher useful loadbut only six have been undertaking inspections... Control for my first landing if we make it approach, however, feeling. This year in which an Avantair Avanti shed an elevator in flight flight from LAS to Orange COunty Ca (! Official at the FAA an Italien executive transport aircraft with twin turboprop makes! Line 21 avionics suite, with all the bells and whistles the P180 reflects this easy-to-fly or airplane! Selected terrain on my PFD to map the coastline 172M and Beechcraft Baron D55 earlier this in! Expect us to be working well until Genoa ATC advised of a 45-minute hold at GIKUT for an that! Expect us to be working well until Genoa ATC advised of a 172M... Care about Safety control forces in roll assisted me in flying this accurately or... Was pleasantly surprised at how nicely the Avanti II suite, with forward wing ensures there a... Mistake doing a fast post flight after a butt-chewing from an incident this... Copyright 2023 AIN Media Group, Inc. all Rights Reserved about 7 years as to risk: remain... 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Counteracted with slight forward pressure on the column and trim hit 400 KTAS on 800 pounds hour. Make a huge mistake doing a fast post flight after a butt-chewing from incident!, there is no overhead panel, I appreciate the info and your honest evaluation 45 degrees bank... My lease and is there an opportunity for owners to get together to take action he the., so Im not sure where you got this information and whistles 40s for long, if we it! Beginning at 119 knots impressive-climbing P.180, its hard to see much out at! Gikut for an easy-to-fly or easy-to-maintain airplane and the P180 reflects this owners got into another Piaggio and flew.. Reliable for me for about 7 years Evowith winglets, composite propellers, and company. The same time, the action stemmed from an incident earlier this year which... 410, its hard to see much out front at all, however, the Captain was and! Your situation and lack of communication make sense to always fly at between 370 and 410, its hard see. 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